Should states license Service Animals??? New Service Animal Laws???

by Spot on August 21, 2009

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A recent article in the Statesman Journal suggest that all service animals should be licensed by the state and properly identified much like handicapped parking tags are issued. Read the article below and then come back here and make your voice heard by posting a comment below.

State should license dogs that assist… – Statesman Journal

Should your service animal have to be licensed??? Comment now


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Pets and Service Dogs in grocery stores; the line must be drawn | barfblog
12.09.12 at 3:14 pm

{ 61 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Darrell Shandrow 08.21.09 at 8:55 am

I’m fine with licensing, so long as the process is *completely* accessible to blind guide dog owners in *every* respect and it is administered at no fee to the owner.

2 Darrell Shandrow 08.21.09 at 8:58 am

My wife licensed her dog here in Arizona, but I think it has probably lapsed since they lack accessibility notification and renewal procedures. At this juncture, we expect full access to all government programs, including such a licensing scheme, and probably wouldn’t keep up with it were it inaccessible.

3 chol992000 08.21.09 at 11:14 am

Again, I am unable to follow the link you post to read the entire story.

I don’t think we need to give any government, state, federal or otherwise, more power over anything.

A recognized nationwide certification program would be ok with me. A one-time per dog/handler team…No annual requirement and no fees since people with service dogs are usually on a limited income.

4 penny 08.23.09 at 9:31 am

ADA, states anyone with a qualifying disability may have, train, enter any public access as everyone else, with there Service Animal.
There is a big difference between a Service Animal and a Pet. If the store owners cannot tell the difference between them then I suggest not complain. By law if the “Service Animal” is a nuisance/charging at food areas, kids, etc. Then I do not believe that it is a Service Animal, the owner than has the right to refuse service. As far as licensing, that is discriminating to the disabled person themselves. I am sorry people you really can tell the difference between a Pet and a Service Animal. Information and education is the key here.

5 Sharon Ross 08.23.09 at 12:56 pm

DEAR FRIENDS, HERE IS AN ARTICLE I WROTE FOR TWO NEWSPAPERS AND MY SENIOR NEWSLETTER HERE IN MY TOWN OF BRIGHAM CITY, UT. I HOPE THIS HELPS.
SINCERELY,
SHARON ROSS

Subject: ROLLING TALES- Is that REALLY A SERVICE DOG?

Hi there friends,

My name is Sharon Ross. I live in Brigham City, Utah and I have a SERVICE DOG. Her name is BettyBoop and she is a proffessional. She is now 11 years old and has been with me since she was 5 months old. I have learned as much about service animals as she has and feel qualified to help you learn about these beautiful animals that make the disabled have easier lives.

There have been many questions asked of me, about service animals in general, that I would like to respond to in my Rolling Tales. Simply put, a service animal does a job for a disabled person and has been individually trained to provide assistance to that individual, that they cannot do for themselves. Some disabilities cannot be seen outwardly, such as hearing loss, heart disease, cancer, epilepsy or mental health issues but are included in the ADA. There are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities . Some examples include: Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds, pulling wheelchairs or carrying or picking up things, and assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance. Service animals ARE NOT PETS. While they should be well cared for and loved, they have their place. They are there to do a service. When in a restaurant, they must never be on or near where food is being served. This is also a health food law. Otherwise, you could bring your rabbit, cat, snake etc. to dinner with you and set them on the table. They are to be UNDER the table, on the floor, beside the handlers chair on the floor and remain there quietly. These are ANIMALS. They have no place being where others are trying to enjoy their meals. Some people are genuinely allergic and imposing your animal in a public eating area is not necessary or of good manners.

Service animals, under ADA guidelines, do not have to be certified by a state or local government. However, if a person states that an animal is ‘a service animal and it becomes known that this is not the case, a hefty fine can be imposed upon the owner of that animal, according to state law. A service animal should wear a jacket or I.D. tag stating that it is a service animal, along with the handlers name on the tag for public awareness. A service animal should not have attention drawn to it by dressing it in clothing or hats or balloon’s etc. because ethics tell most people that ‘you are not serious if you need to show others that your service animal is outstanding and ‘cute’, not working and important to your needs. I was at the fair the other day and a very un-knowledgeable woman came up to me and proceeded to start petting my service dog. As she kept petting her she stated that she should have brought her service dog too’. I was pretty upset by her actions. I said, ” Do you know about service dogs?” She replied, ” Oh yeh, my dog is a service dog too”. I promptly said, ” Do you also know that you are not allowed to pet service animals unless you ask the handler?” She replied back, ” Sorrrrrrry”, the she walked off. How much harder would it have been if I dressed her up in an outfit with ruffles? I’m lucky to have a mild mannered service dog, because people just grab her and DON’T ASK, because if she were to bite someone out of protecting me, I would be ‘at fault’ and could be sued. Handlers are totally responsible for any and all actions that their service dog imparts, in a negative manner. HAVING A SERVICE DOG IS A RESPONSIBILITY YOU MUST BARE. Not only out of courtesy to others, but out of legal safety to yourself and your dog. Having a service dog is not a game or an object for public display or amusement. They have a job, just as police dogs in the canine program have a job. When a public place displays a ‘ NO PETS’ sign in their establishment, this cannot be extended to ‘SERVICE ANIMALS’. The federal law States, all places that serve ‘the public’ such as restaurants, hotels, retail stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities are prohibited from discrimination against individuals with disabilities and /or their service animals on premises that the general public is allowed to enter. However, a store owner has every right to display and enforce a NO PETS sign in their establishment. So, I repeat my statement above, “How serious or believable will you be perceived if you ‘DRESS UP YOUR SERVICE DOG’? These dogs should look and act the professionals that they are, and as a responsible handler, so should you. How professional would a doctor, policeman or lawyer be if they dressed in a costume and had no credentials? You may also go on the web at http://www.DeltaSociety.org

Are there standards for service animal trainers that ensure trainers are good?
There are no uniform standards or credentialing criteria applied to all service dog trainers. Generally, service animal trainers are self-taught or apprentice with someone else and need only a business license to train service animal. Anyone can claim to be a professional trainer. Some trainer organizations agree to follow minimum standards, but do not inspect or guarantee the quality of any program.

“Certification” of an animal or dog is offered by some trainers, but is not a legal requirement. Without standards for all trainers or all service animals, “certification” criteria varies from trainer to trainer and is not a guarantee of quality or predictability of animal behavior or performance.

Delta Society’s Professional Standards for Dog Trainers is an important book that offers guidelines for the professional dog trainer. It includes information on dog behavior, trainer skills and ethics, tools and equipment, and more. Download and print, or purchase a soft-bound copy of the book today!

servicedogtags.com

If you have further questions about service animals or other requirements of the ADA, you may call the U.S. Department of Justice’s toll free ADA information Line AT 800-514-0301 (VOICE) or 800-514-0383 (TDD)

6 Sabra Welles 08.24.09 at 6:22 pm

I have a 10yo mobility service dog that will be retiring this fall due to health problem regardless whether her successor is ready or not. I have been training dogs off and on for 30 years and even spent 4 years as a 4-H volunteer dog training assistant in obedience and agility which is where my current service dog learned her skills (before I became disabled).

The number of people I have come up to me and ask me how they can get their “well-behaved” dog to be a service dog so they can “take it wherever they want” never ceases to amaze me :shock:. I just send them to the internet to look up the information for the local service dog training school in our area.

I still haven’t been able to come up with the right response for that without wondering whether they will be able to hunt me down and slash my tires or sugar my gas tank :mad:. My first reaction is to pop off and say, “Try losing the freedom to live your life whole first!” and tromp off, but I can’t tromp anymore. I figure my best bet is to let someone else with more punch behind their name do it for me.

7 penny 08.25.09 at 9:20 am

I know for me, and my disability, hidden, that it is not an easy task. It takes time and patience for training. I do not take my Service Animal everywhere until I know that she is doing her job. Sabre you are absolutely right about people in general just think they can train their dog for public access. Maybe they do and maybe they do not have a disability. The hardest part for me is; people want to just pet the (animal) and it gets old after a while, explaining that she is a Service Animal and not a pet.

8 Mark 09.02.09 at 3:47 am

I have struggled my whole life with a form of High Functioning Autism. I was Diagnosed with Diabetes about 15 years ago. About 13 years ago the United States VA diagnosed me with Mental Illness including possible Bipolar disorder they could never seem to figure out how to class, Major Anxiety Disorder with tendency to panic attacks was also fully diagnosed over the years to follow. After a Suicide Attempt 4 years ago I was false arrested and held in Jail for 4 days with NO meds. The bogus “case” against me was dropped and I did not file suit against the police but I did end up with mild PTSD over it all and have had some interesting interactions with Police since. My Service Dog is a “cute” Chihuahua. I am not going to make him ugly just so people will stop the annoying advances. Other than the most annoying comment I hear about his “cuteness” is how amazed people are at how calm and behaved this little dog is in public. I explain that is because he is highly trained and is NOT my “Pet”. He is my partner in life who does things for me I am chronically functionally unable to do for myself. Without my Dog all bets are off as to whether I may die of my diseases or do something irrational that causes society to have to deal with the “Fallout” while I am NO MORE to punish for my actions as I will be a flipping corpse (if not just charred remains).

My dog has been effective in times past at detecting my low blood sugar and not letting me lay down to rest or comfort him into being calm until I took the care of eating. This has more than one time afforded me time to do something about it when I could not tell I was so bad off and was risking Coma and DEATH. Diabetes and Mental Illness both can have a tendency to cause dissociative disorders. My Dog assists me during my times of Dissociation in returning to reality in ways I can NOT do for myself AND have NO OTHER HUMAN available to assist me with. I get really disgusted when I hear people say that Psychiatric Service Dogs are just security blankets. If someone needed a “Security Blanket” to keep them from longing to slit your throat would you rather insist they should not have it at the risk some insane person causes your neck to bleed from you referring to their need as trivial? Really people, get a grip on reality here. Society needs band aids or if the finger gets pulled out of the hole in the Dyke (Dam) the resulting flood will kill us ALL.

I have observed Professionally Trained Service Dogs appear to break training (A Blind Man’s Guide Dog recently jumped up on Me with my Dog in my arms). Most Dog’s, even highly trained, are not going to be perfect at everything all the time which is why every Service Animal partner needs to interact with the animal to get them ready for public interaction on a DAILY basis. The best Service Animals are well groomed, clean, quiet, unobtrusive, and OBEDIENT. If my Service Animal does not fit these appearance and behavior models then I will not enter OR remain in an indoor public place. I have never yet been asked to quiet my Dog because he knows I would take him outside and scold him the same way a RESPONSIBLE PARENT is expected to do with their HUMAN CHILD.

I think I need to start taking video in grocery stores of little snot nosed children double dipping their spit covered fingers in the bulk food bins and submit the videos with complaints about the Grocery Stores to the State AG Department and County Health Department.
:twisted:

9 Terri Beck 09.02.09 at 10:16 pm

Hi
I have a shihtzu who is 1&1/2 yrs old. He is a psychiatric service dog in training. I have taken him through basic obedience training and he has been in tune to my health and panic and depression and saddness disorder since day one . He sits with me as long as I need when ever I need, as a matter of fact if I am sitting in a big enough chair he is always sitting with me if not, then at my feet. If I take a 2-5 hour nap he does too. He never leaves me. I got him when he was about 1o mos old and we have been velcroed together ever since. I had gotten to where I would not go out by myself for anything because I would have panic attacks and become disoriented and have to leave after returning to my car taking medication and calming down enough to get home. At times I would have to call someone to come get me. For about the last two mos. I have started venturing out a little with Merlin with me. I can’t believe the difference. I still get a little nervous but I can make it through with his help. He is very well behaved and has been well accepted everywhere I’ve taken him. He never barks. When I stop he stops., or he rides in a basket or I carry him. He only weighs 10lbs. Having him with me in my home has helped me enough to decrease my medication. Now that you have some background my question is ,My family is going on vacation to disney world Sept 8 and they don’t think it may be a good idea for me to take him along. They are worried it may be to hard on him. I have cleared it with Disney, with his vet, and with the folks that are helping me train him. My trainer said just judge by myself. If I’m hot he’s hot. If I’m thirsty He’s probably thirsty If I have to go to the rest room he probably does to and so on. I’m more worried about leaving him because we are so attached. He will never leave me out of his site. If my husband is holding him and I leave the room he immediately starts to cry. When I do leave him home when I open the door his nose immediately comes out. Plus I don’t know how well I will do without him either. They don’t understand. They think that because they are with me I shouldn’t need him, but I feel lost without him. We have been together nearly 24 hrs a day for almost a year now. What do you think? I don’t want to do anything hurtful for him but I don’t know which woud be worse. Please help me. Thank you so much in advance. I so confused
Blessings to you and your wonderful animals.

10 Mark 09.03.09 at 1:16 am

To Terri:
It would be cruel for you to leave Merlin behind. These other Humans HAVE NO CLUE!!! They are trying to manipulate you because they fear they may be inconvenienced by the animal. I think they ARE SELFISH and do not have you our your canine partner’s best interest at heart. I personally would rather Stay Home than go ANYWHERE without my dog. At some point you have to stand up for your rights Terri. If you choose a Service Animal and make a commitment to the Animal then you will not let them dissuade you from keeping the important connection with the animal. If you let them not understand and “bully” you into leaving Merlin you will end up feeling guilt AND set their expectations that they can tell you they do not see why you need him; then they may try to always deny him coming along to events. Don’t let them BULLY you with their SELFISH IGNORANCE. Fell free to message me via the MySpace page linked to my name on this post if you have any more questions and concerns. I think you should talk with Joan Esnayra PhD. of Psychiatric Service Dog Society
joan.esnayra@mac.com
Phone: (571) 216-1589
She has been very helpful to me in learning what you need to SUE for access. Joan has personally successfully Sued in Civil Court and won against businesses and even a Police Department. Her LARGE Service Animal was not allowed into a business and the the Police were not able to explain the law to the business that was discriminating against her. My local police have told me they will inform the business of the law and their liability under the law but that they can still refuse you access and the Cops can’t force them to admit you. If a business tells a Cop they don’t like the color of your skin the Cops will tell them that is their right but that it is now a matter of record that they discriminate and they will likely LOSE if there is a lawsuit and they have violated your Civil Rights according to Federal Law. Of course ALL businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone but if their reason violates Federal Civil Rights Law then THEY NEED TO PAY the price for their defiance of the Law.

11 Matthew Stoloff 09.03.09 at 3:04 pm

Ms. Currie writes in that article, “A simple certification sign-off by a veterinarian or physician could end the abuse of service-dog status, and preserve the credibility of people who need these animals.”

I’m not sure if I agree with that statement. This is a particularly tricky issue. Are veterinarians qualified to “certify” service animals? Are medical physicians qualified to “certify” service animals? I don’t know the answer to either of those questions.

What qualifications are required for someone to properly “certify” service animals? Also, if, for whatever reason, someone refuses to “certify” a service animal, can the person with the disability appeal that decision to a higher government authority? If so, who should be the person or agency that will be responsible for hearing appeals?

12 penny 09.04.09 at 12:27 pm

Terri,
If it was me I would ignore what family and friends saying. Your Service Animal is part of you. If you stop to think, keeping your Service Animal at home is not benefiting you at all, and to think that all the work that was put in your Service Animal, is a waste. I have a Service Animal in training and she goes everywhere, except a sit down restaurant, I do not feel she is ready for this type of public access. Other than that she goes, everywhere, even to court. I hope this has somewhat helped. Even though I have favorite outings and have had to put up with peoples, comments, I enjoy being able to be out in public more today than yesterday. Training is difficult, some have experience, others research literature, and then others play by ear. As far as certification of a Service Animal, believe me you can tell the difference in public. So Terri, go to Disney and enjoy yourself, it seems you have researched all avenues and safety for you and your Service Animal. Good Luck and have a ball…

13 penny 09.04.09 at 12:30 pm

:shock: #11
where did you come up with all of this. for pete’s sake, these are disabled peoples lives we are talking about. not if the judge is qualified to determine if the certifier can do his job. for crying out loud. please do more research.

14 Mark 09.05.09 at 9:55 pm

Dear Penny, Since you are guilty of being so ambiguous in your last post I am forced to ask if you are directing it at me with your gross lack of specifics. If you wish to challenge what I write, be specific, or I will logically need to write you off as obviously misinformed and unable to debate reasonably. I have done my research AND can back of my claims with sources. Can You? BTW, a Service Animal “In Training” has limited rights until you declare them ready for s courtroom. Until you can take them into a public “sit down eating” restaurant you would be a total FOOL to confidently think you should take that animal into a courtroom. I think YOU need to DO YOUR RESEARCH. FOR SURE.

15 Mark 09.05.09 at 10:01 pm

:neutral:
I realize you were directing that at comment 11 but you still need to be more specific since you seem SO HOSTILE towards Mathew’s simple questions. I think you misunderstood or tried to interpret the nature and intent of his question, Penny. He is simply posing a question and I must correct you that you seemed to about bite his head off for it. That is no way to get respect or gain any credibility. Excuse me but I think you were being harsh AND ambiguous. I only call it as I see it.

16 Mark 09.05.09 at 10:15 pm

One more thing Penny. I wonder if you even know if you just barked at a Lawyer who actively blogs his interest in the rights of Service Animals? As a person who appreciates both the questions he posed as well as his position in the legal system I am embarrassed for you. Maybe you just did not understand the way he phrased his post but I think you SERIOUSLY owe him a “whoops, I’m sorry”. I am feeling kind of peeved at a fellow disabled person who just barked at a Lawyer who I would love to speak with to answer his logical questions to the best of my ability. I plan to call him and you can bet we will be talking about how you seem to have perceived his post in a negative fashion. :???:

17 penny 09.06.09 at 9:42 am

I am not sure what made you upset 16, but I am just specifically stating that for ME and MY service animal in TRAINING, I am a qualified disabled person who may by law train my own service animal….And this story is in regards to STATE License’s. Either way, it goes, the person is still disabled, the service animal is still the service animal and the fight continues. So for whatever reason you become so angry, then I am not sure, what to say except I have had my fair share of negativeness out in public, thank you very much!

18 john smith 09.11.09 at 7:05 am

ok so i have a few question if you all could help and maybe answer. I am one of those people that think there should be a little more to trainig and certifying so it isnt misused. Im not disabled but reading alot of posts on here I can go home get my lab, buy a jacket that says dog in training and head to my favorite town stores and say its a service dog. Now before you get all up tight and start yelling at me here me out first. The first question would be about wheelchair pulling dogs. Would a amall dog like pug or others around that size be an apporpriate dog for this action. Shouldnt there be some kind of harness that would have hooks on both sides to pull the wheelchair instead of hooking a leash to a reg. standard collar? Would it be able to pull a full grown woman weighting approx. 150 # without being cruel to the animal? And if this person would have somebody with them at the time pushing them and not the dog pulling were would the dog be, walking on the floor/ground beside the wheelchair or riding on the persons lap like they would do with their pet? Have witnessed alot of misuses of the serivce dog application but doing something about it will get a lawsuit in civil court by sue happy people that dont wanna leave home without there pet. Service dogs are great for people that NEED them. There just has to be a better way of identifying the real ones from the fakes.

19 john smith 09.11.09 at 7:07 am

sorry my email address didnt go thru…….tarbndr@live.com

20 penny 09.11.09 at 10:13 am

18 hello, as you can see what I have said before really upset someone, and I am not here to upset anyone. If the State requires a License than I will have to get one.I do believe they should be reasonably affordable. A number of disabled persons would not be able to afford a high price license for the service animal which is part of their life. I guess what I am trying to say is, for me, when my service animal and I are in training in public,that is exactly what we are doing, nothing more nothing less. Personally speaking I can tell the difference between a pet and a service animal. Probably most who have a service animal could tell the difference. For someone who needs a service animal for their chair, yes a large dog would be required, but then you may have someone in a chair, who has a service animal for a hidden reason which would probably be on their lap, but, as I said before, you can tell the difference. I am in the process of training my own service animal for my own disabling conditions. There are many services that can be trained for the service animal. It takes alot of time and patience for this. Example, I have a neighbor who has a pet, her husband is a Vet, (which is eligible for a Service Animal), ok, now this neighbor took the pet inside a store in which she was asked if the dog was for Service. In the mean time the dog jumped up on the counter of doughnuts, which a Service Animal does not do. Now this pet could be trained for the Vet as a Service Animal but it should be trained for public access before entering. Myself, I have went through the potty training, kennel training, sit,down,stay training, leash training and some public access training, however I do have a long way to go. I do not know if I have answered any of your questions, but hope this will help. I have had some people yell at me for my opinion. But I, personally can tell the difference in public businesses between a pet and a Service animal, with or without documentation.

21 Mark 09.13.09 at 6:49 pm

#20, you really seem VERY clueless. I exclaimed that you mis-interpreted a lawyers comment and you are TOO Defensive to see the error in your ways and ADMIT you were not stating an opinion as you claim, but were emotionally flying off the handle at someone who simply asked some logical questions. Your avoidance of the issue is disgusting. I am disabled and you may be too but that does not make it OK with me that you make us disabled people look STUPID with your ignorant attack on Mathew Stoloff’s post. He at least gave you an opportunity to check him out with his name being hot linked to his website. I also do not hide behind the anonymity of the internet as you so conveniently hide yourself. You have NO CREDIBILITY, Penny.

22 Mark 09.13.09 at 6:53 pm

#18 Go back to school and learn to write better. Did you even graduate from the 8th Grade? Your post is just plain poorly stated and focuses on one small aspect of Service Animal tasks while ignoring the many other viable tasks they provide. :mad:

23 Mark 09.14.09 at 1:44 am

One more thing “John Smith” (haha if that is really your name). The pug comment shows your ignorance. While a pug is capable of performing some tasks they are one of the least advisable breeds to consider because of their breathing issues. Your post shows you out to be a narrow minded poorly educated hick with blinders on. You need a major paradigm shift. Think outside the box just a touch or hang it up Dude, your in complete ignorance of how ANY of it works. NO Vest for a VERY good reason. The Federal Government Mandates “NOT ALL DOGS WILL WEAR SPECIAL VEST OR HARNESS” for some very good reasons. Man you ought to read up on the issue before exposing yourself to be an ignorant FOOL like you have. You are the type of fool that would get a pug and try to teach it to pull your chair and then complain nobody warned you it could not pull your weight. Your post makes me laugh because it is SO LAME it is hard to take you serious AT ALL. Idiot, U R A total waste of brain matter at this point.

24 Mark 09.14.09 at 1:55 am

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :evil: :evil: :!: :!: :!:
The John Smith’s and Penny’s are a general waste of time. Hiding in anonymity they post blithering dribble about people choking dogs trying top get them to pull crap with a collar instead of a vest. Or how wonderfully trained your dog is but you still feel he is not ready for prime time? Penny, I feel sorry for your dog. I really do. Must be an incredibly confused dog to have to put up with your BS. Both of you don’t get it right now and I highly doubt either of you will get anything figured out in time to matter. Penny contradicts herself too much and John Smith is a bag of hot air in need of rapid deflation. John you are barking about BS which is not really relevant to the discussion of Service Animal registration. Really man how dumb can you be to start talking about dumb people choking their dogs. It is not what this Article is talking about. You are diverting attention from the topic of this thread like a worthless WORM of a TROLL. Go AWAY. FAIL FAIL FAIL you FOOL. ha HA.

25 Mark 09.14.09 at 2:00 am

Penny, you barked at a Lawyer who asks nice questions and then you try to explain yourself to an ignorant goofball like “John Smith”? You have got to be the most backwards thinking individual. John Smith NOT your friend if you have a Service Animal. The Lawyer guy is in favor of Service Animal law making sense. You have it all backwards Penny. Wise up!

26 Mark 09.14.09 at 2:05 am

If I had a name like John Smith I’d get it changed, lol. Obviously, a small dog won’t pull a wheelchair but can be for other things like Seizure Alert or Diabetes Low Blood Sugar detection, you ignorant FOOL. Go away go away go away. You have even LESS Credibility than Penny, John (or Whatever your name is) :!:

27 penny 09.14.09 at 9:14 am

26…Wow!! You can chew me out all that you want, 8th grade education, ambiguous and whatever else you choose to call me. If you do not like my writing than do not read it. While this article is about Service Dog License, all I have read from you is anger at anyone with a comment. I feel bad for you.

28 Sarah 09.15.09 at 12:30 am

The conversation here has turned into finger pointing and nasty comments.

I had come here to read about Service Animals and the issues we who use them face. Instead, I find a flame war. That doesn’t do much to encourage one to stay and continue reading.

Be well.

29 Mark 09.18.09 at 10:09 pm

#27. I don’t feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for your dog. :!:
I only expressed disgust with you and one other person and you make it sound like I am lamb basting the whole lot of comments. You ignore how you started the WHOLE thing with your STUPID ANGRY comment about a REASONABLE comment. You are unable to read all the stuff I wrote objectively because you can’t see through your anger. I suppose you use a Pug for a “service animal” or an untrained puppy then you would have no clue. You seem like the type that would remain inside while your dog was making a commotion and I’d have to go complain that they need to LEGALLY tell you to LEAVE with your UNTRAINED animal. People like you disgust my Dog and I. I’d be willing to meet you ANYWHERE, ANYTIME to see who has the better trained animal! :cool: You are an EMO Chicken and I bet your poor little dog breaks training multiple times daily just to tell you to SNAP OUT OF IT!

30 Mark 09.18.09 at 10:18 pm

Penny, #27
Tell me more about the tasks your dog does?
Why do you not feel confident taking him into a restaurant?
What breed are you using and why did you adopt the breed for your disability?
You are probably not able to give fully qualifying logical answers to these 3 questions even, so GO AWAY and STAY AWAY until you can make some logical sense instead of just pouting or claiming you are being persecuted by an angry mean guy. Wah Wah Wah, you cry, but you make no sense and AVOID reasonable questions. You post like a very pathetic human the way I see it.

31 penny 09.18.09 at 11:49 pm

:mrgreen: :roll:
I am not going anywhere. Still here as a matter of fact. 1 My chosen, adopted dog, is a Lab/Pit, she will be assisting me with my hearing. She is 6 months old and just got fixed today. She doesn’t feel well at the moment and probably won’t for a couple of days. Her tasks consists of 3 signs that you probably don’t even know. Barking at a ring of a phone. For your information this is my first Service Animal, however, I have advocated for people who were having trouble with access.

32 Tamandra 09.22.09 at 12:50 pm

OK, I’d like to see the comments get back on track here. Even though it’s been a couple days. I’m pondering what I think about certification or licensing, pending a news story I’m being interviewed for tomorrow. It’s about fake Service dogs.
I live in a large city, and people claiming their dogs are SDs is becoming more and more of a problem. Both with people who have real disabilities, and people who are just claiming to have one. The ones with real disabilities are using their pet and saying it’s a SD, feeling ok about it because they are disabled, but the dogs are not properly trained. So really, I suppose the issue is taking untrained, poorly behaved dogs in public, regardless of if they are legit or not. Perhaps a Canine Good Citizen award would be great to require, as it’s not difficult to obtain testing for, and even therapy dogs have a similar test. It might weed out dogs with poor temperaments, who have no business in public.

I’ve been having more and more access issues, though. There’s more of a suspicion of if my dog is legit, and I’m in a wheelchair. He’s a German Shepherd. Sometimes it’s due to my not dressing him-it’s kind of a pain to do, and when it’s hot out, uncomfortable for him. It’s not required, and it tends to expose business owners who don’t have a clue about SD law. Then I can explain to them how they have the right to refuse any dog that is behaving poorly. Some business owners have been obnoxiously rude about it, though.

I’m glad the law allows me to train my own dog, the breed I choose. It does seem that more regulation might be a slippery slope, where more and more restrictions would be imposed. And who’s qualified to judge your dog? I’m not sure what the answer is. But so many people know where to buy vests now, and to find the places “certifying” dogs is horrifying. So I guess certification isn’t the answer, either.

33 Doc 11.01.09 at 9:10 am

Doc 11.01.09 at 9:01 am
These blogs about certification are all very interesting. It is almost as interesting as watching drivers get out of thier cars parked in Handicap spaces and run to the store, or the best one, off of a motorcycle (lots of parking permits are given because the MD can’t say no to a long time patient or is passed down from an eldery parent and left in the car)! Why would anyone object to certification ? If you really have a medical problem that requires or is helped by a service dog, than there is no reason to fear certification. How many people dess thier dogs up in vests just to save the $150 on the airplane? That prevents an truly required dog from gaining access. I realize that dog and caats can really help with emotional issues….our pets make us happy. I think dogs ahave a natural ability to realize when we are sad or hurt….but that does not make them Service Dogs. The SD class that pull chairs,open door, pick up objects etc are performing a vital necessity. I don’t have to comment of Seeing Eye Dogs. Alert dogs also perform a service…Diabetic dogs alert low sugar, allergy dogs keep kids away from peanut butter, siezure alert dogs can save lives by alerting an individual to sit down or stop driving! There are also many other diseases that are similar to siezures that SD can benefit. If you truley have a medical problem that a SD can assist in or afvise of than why would you be afraid to have your dog certified ? I don’t get It. Yes I have a SD Dog…an Alert Dog…very well trained….and she has never been in a restaurant, movie, store, or airplane (1st flight will be early next year because I will be alone a lot of the time) because I have my wife of a friend with me. To say that a dog is needed to calm someone on a plane…well that is pushing a bit…that is why they make medications to help calm you.

So, I would love to have certification of some kind. I am not afraid and I encourage it

34 Tamandra 11.01.09 at 12:36 pm

It’s not about being afraid of it. It’s just much more complicated than what it seems. For instance, who will do the certifying? Where? Then who is responsible if the dog does do something that’s a liability? What if you live in a podunk town and have no funds to travel to get certification? Who’s standards will be used?

What if it’s decided that certain breeds shouldn’t be Service dogs? What if a certifier doesn’t like the breed you are using, so looks for ways to flunk them? My dog is a German Shepherd, and does not act like a Golden Retriever. There are qualities he has that would likely not have him pass an organization’s standards, had he been raised by them. He has higher drives than their dogs. For instance, he digs chasing birds. But I’m strong, and am a good handler, so it’s fine for me, and controlled. (It’s funny in appropriate situations).

I like that the responsibility is mine to ensure my dog is trained well, behaves properly, and does what I need. People already fake with a purchased vest. People can buy “certification” off the net. It’s really meaningless. What should be the hallmark is how the team is together. Regardless of certification, breed, dress, or anything. It’s pretty obvious the difference between a well trained dog, and an average pet.

Hasn’t everyone heard from people in public “Oh, my dog could never do this, he’d be all over the tables, sniffing stuff, etc.” ??

35 Doc 11.01.09 at 1:39 pm

Certification will be done by a specific organization….maybe the local ASPCA, maybe Therapy Dogs International or others, but all dogs would have to pass the same type of test. Who will be responsible if your dog does something….your are . You say that your dog is well trained >>>>>>>>it chaises birds and you thi nk this is funny>>>>>not for a Service dog, maybe for a pet, but my pet Golden doesn’t even do that. Your dog is high drive….have you ever seen a Portuegese Water Dog or a Briard ???? My SD is a Porty….off lead never chases birds squirels or other animals…..runs on the breach and when called skids tos astop to turn around and run back to me…took 18 months of hard training. Judges don’t choose dogs because they are big or small or black or white. Have you never seen a German Shepard as a Seeing Eye Dog ? What is your “Disability” That you need a SD…yet you say that he would not pass a test and that you are strong….who is in charge here ? who has trained who? Or not.! b This is EXACTLY why there should be certification !!!!!

36 Tamandra 11.01.09 at 2:39 pm

OH brother! :roll: Yes, I’ve seen Porties and Briards. Mine is German line GSD. He’s medium to even low drive for what he’s bred for, hence suitable as a Service dog. The litter was tested by SAR experts at 4 weeks old, and they were the ones who claimed he was good material, because he’s so laid back. When someone hears “chases birds”, I figure they’re coming up with a visual that might not be what reality is. He, too, can turn on a dime and recall OFF of seagulls on the beach, and it didn’t take 18 months training to do, either. It’s using what he likes, chasing the birds, as the reward.

He’s a DOG first, Service dog second. If we are in a park, and he’s not working, sure I’ll say “go get the squirrel”. Important thing here is that it’s my idea, and that it is with permission! It’s not like he goes running with me attached, and slams me into the first tree LOL. Jeeeez. My “disability” (why the quotes? sarcasm?) is Spina Bifida, so I’m in a wheelchair. So yeah, having a SD is useful for me, and he does his job. German Shepherds are used much less for Guide Dogs, because it is more difficult to deal with drives, eliminate, or squash them.

I said he would not pass getting through a SD org, if he were one of theirs. Not a test. With me handling him, he would pass a test. He is a certified therapy dog, too, and passed a test given by a SD handler/activist, who threw some wrenches in the test just to make it more hard for us. He got a perfect score. He’s got an AKC Good Citizen, and a Companion Dog Title, plus a Schutzhund BH (harder than all of those combined, and a true temperament test for the breed).

37 penny 11.01.09 at 7:49 pm

It sounds as though you still have questions and are quite nervous about your interview. Take a deep breath and everything will work out. Keep doing what you are doing. The Law is the law and the disabled will continue to fight… As far as certification goes, I believe that we have a long way to go on that one. It seems to be a good idea, being some people are just taking their pets and passing off as a Service Animal. It’s not fair, but as disabled people when has anything been fair. I had a neighbor that’s husband is a Veteran, she decided all of a sudden to call their pet a Service Animal. She then took it into a grocery store around the pre-cooked area and the dog jumped right on the counter. So please, if you allow your SD to chase squirrels, so be it. Be strong and keep researching, you will find the answers your looking for. I hope this helps.

38 Tamandra 11.01.09 at 8:09 pm

Nervous about my interview? Huh? I’m not nervous nor do I have questions… My dog is 8 now. I don’t get why it’s being looked down on that he’s allowed to chas a few critters in his life. Yes that would be bad for a dog from a program, given to a severely impaired person. But it’s the same (to the dog) as going after a thrown ball. Same drives. You don’t see squirrels in a grocery store.
Where I do run into problems is when people think they must be certified. And I am strong. I wil fight that whenever I can.

39 penny 11.02.09 at 11:48 am

38, I am sorry if I offended you. I didn’t mean too. I have areas of concerns with SD’s as well.

40 penny 11.02.09 at 11:51 am

Is it the treatment of Society that bothers us or the knowledge one person has more than the other. I came here as with the rest for support.

41 Tamandra 11.02.09 at 12:20 pm

No worries, you didn’t offend me. This is a good place for support. I do open myself up for criticism with a few things. Many people disagree with not dressing a SD in a vest. And some raise eyebrows at letting them be a dog sometimes. Or rather, the type of personality they are. I got flack on Wheelchair Junkie for my dog’s chasing things. I still have training challenges, even at his age. It keeps me on my toes : )

42 John Doe 11.02.09 at 10:42 pm

First, Mark is a :evil: deranged :evil: keyboard know it all. I like how he attacked Penny when she was not even commenting on his post :?: , then after he realized it, he continued to harass her. I also love when people like himself start to attack people for their grammar and verbiage. What does it matter if someone has graduated from Harvard, or just HS. The funny thing his comment about grammar was actually incorrect verbiage and sentence construction. We are all guilty of some grammatical errors.

That set aside, I think many people have brought up some very valid points.

1) I think there should be a regulation of some sort. Maybe people on limited incomes could be supplemented some how. I know of many people that are actually handicapped and therefore believe they somehow due special treatment for being so. They are under the impression they paid their debt to society, so now they should be able to get special parking, special access, special seats, special etc… I believe that there is nothing special needed for handicapped. I do believe there should be tools put in place to help and assist those whom need it. A hang nail should not make you handicapped and therefore capable of parking in handicapped parking and having a service dog.

2) Handicapped is not an umbrella. I am handicapped and have certain needs. You might be handicapped and need other assistance outside of my needs. Each person knows what they need and shall not go above those tools or assistance given to them. Please stop believing you should be treated better or given special treatment above those that are able bodied.

3) I believe that over 1/2 of all SD I have seen are not needed. I especially believe that dogs for those that are afraid to go outside are ridiculous. Everyone has anxiety at some point in their life, but we should not depend on a pill or a dog to get through it. If you can’t get on an airplane without a dog to calm you, then think about a train. I am sorry, but if we gave an animal to everyone afraid to fly or go outside, we would have a zoo in every public place We as the public need to learn to cope…

I could go on and on, but it really comes down to self responsibility. You know what you NEED and what you don’t. Quite trying to make excuses for why you deserve everything and start looking into why you only need some things. Do you need to park in handicapped every time, or can you skip it today and let someone one else use the spot. We are already way over prescribing handicapped plates and parking cards. I am handicapped and when I need a spot have to fight to even get one. I can’t believe how many people believe they need to park in handicapped. Some of these people may be handicapped, but I think the doctor would actually prefer they get some exercise and some extra steps in their daily doings. I especially love the ones that park in the spots and limp in (for show) and then inside the store they are practically jogging around getting their groceries. I especially love it when it’s a bigger store like Costco or Sam’s Club. The store is 80,000 sq feet, but MUST park 20 feet closer to the door. My mom is this way. She will park in handicapped even when there is a spot a bit closer that is not. She is handicapped, but I tell her all the time with her heart condition that she actually should park farther out in the parking lot and get some exercise.

So what it all boils down to is that please don’t abuse the system and quite being a leach. Use what you need with pride, you will know when it feels right.

John

43 Mark 11.06.09 at 3:59 am

John Doe is a pretentious anonymous know it all hypocritical fool #42. He is not only acting the part of know it all but he is a COWARD. I would love to meet him in real life and teach him to eat his words. He is WAY to Chicken to meet me face to face and he has NO CLUE what started things with Penny and I. Buzz off John Doe or arrange to meet me face to face over a cup of Coffee or even a beer if you are man enough to be civil and not an ANONYMOUS online COWARD.

44 Mark 11.06.09 at 4:13 am

:twisted: :evil: Yep if I did not have my Dog and I met someone like “Doc” or “John Doe” IRL they might find they needed a wheelchair assist dog after they learned what a real ambulatory disability feels like. My dog keeps deranged evil me from strapping an exploding pack on and pulling the rip cord in a crowd full of dog hating humans. I tend to see more value in dogs than humans anyways so if they take mine away or something happens to him then all bets are off as in they had better put my dangerous crazy but in a cage or there will be HELL to PAY!

45 penny 11.06.09 at 8:59 am

Mark
Calm down dude. we are all here to help each other. :mrgreen: :lol:

46 Mark 11.23.09 at 2:11 am

I have to pick up my dog and cuddle him or I might just head butt someone. I have been known to bash my head thru walls when I have had anxiety attacks in the past. I am sorry I was so harsh with you Penny, I’ll chill now and take my meds…

47 Mark 11.23.09 at 2:25 am

Tamandra RE: post #36 “German Shepherds are used much less for Guide Dogs, because it is more difficult to deal with drives, eliminate, or squash them.” <—–to my knowledge this is an inaccurate statement. I questioned Guide Dogs For The Blind on this subject when they phased out their last German Shepherds. I was informed that German Shepherds have always made great guide dogs as long as they were from good healthy intelligent stock but they could no longer find sufficient quantity of QUALITY breeding stock so they were FORCED to phase the breed out STRICTLY due to AVAILABILITY and in NO WAY to reflect the attributes of the breed. The Professionals of one of the ORIGINAL guide dog schools of America would disagree with your statement and HAVE already stated a different reason for why they phased them out, therefore I believe your source of information is FLAWED. Sorry, no disrespect intended….just calling it as I see it. We are, after all, here to “help each other”, as Penny reminded me in her recent reply… :lol:

48 Tamandra 11.23.09 at 2:41 am

Mark, my statement isn’t “wrong”, per se. I have in fact heard this from SD org people. Personally, I am on the same page as Guide Dogs for the Blind, because I know how much the breed has been ruined. American lines shouldn’t even be called German Shepherds. The folks who are breeding true working GSD are breeding for Schutzhund, so those lines are going to have extremely high drives. That’s what I was thinking when I said that.

49 penny 11.23.09 at 9:08 pm

Mark, I believe you are trying to apologize to me :grin:; well, how about that….by the way how are you? I haven’t read any of your criticizing comments :mrgreen: lately…I am just joking…I really need to stay focused here on the topic at hand. talk to you soon :smile:

50 Ted 12.10.09 at 6:28 pm

No, this will just keep the scam going just like they are now!!! The government does not make it right!!!

51 Vanya Peterson 03.08.10 at 11:29 am

In order to protect the individual with a disability and the service animal against unscrupulous individuals – a state or federal registry is needed. We are experiencing an increase of fake service animals in our area and the general public is afraid to ask questions. As an advocate for persons with disabilities and the parent of an adult son with a certified seizure response service dog, this form of action is warranted along with stiff fines for those caught – even jail time!

52 SDFL 03.30.10 at 11:01 am

I’d say most schools and professional trainers all follow the ADI guidelines for service dogs. Most countries regulate dogs, the US is behind, but has a harder time because of how the privacy laws interfere.

In short, we just need to inform the public and businesses at should any service dog misbehave to have it ejects, as mentioned in the ADA. If there is a fake service dog, that is actually behaving, it’s not causing a problem and is a non-issue (other than being illegal and criminal fraud).

To John Smith #18, your right you could just go get a vest and take your dog out. The problem you will face is the lack of training will give you away, at some point your dog will misbehave and you will be caught.
If you lie and say your disabled, you might get away with it, should the issue persist or worse the police get involved, they WILL press charges.

Certification by the gov won’t help.
http://www.servicedogsfl.org/docs/fakers.shtml

Florida, like most states has strict laws on fraud, which are applied to fake service dogs and fake disabled handlers.

53 SDFL 03.30.10 at 11:11 am

We all know how well the governement tracks disabled parking cards.
–I know a few that are just photo copies.

Many Alert dogs are trained for seizures, how would the gov test for them?
As there are so many ways the dog can help, no one, except the handler can say if the dog helps them. Which is how the ADA is written. The dog is for the handler, the handler decides if it is working correctly or as they wanted, putting all the pressure of proper training on that dogs original trainer or school.

The ADA was written in a way to keep the GOV out of the issue. The gov believes that the industry will sort itself out, and that the bad apples will be pushed out through education and lawsuits. The laws are already in the books for fraud, the states just have to enforce them. A federal judge is the only authority that has the right to demand your medical records and your dogs training records to prove that: #1 you are legally disabled, #2 the dog has been individually trained. The handler is the one that states if the dog meets their needs.

54 David 06.09.10 at 8:37 pm

WOW!!!,, tough crowd,,lol, we should be sticking together.

55 Cathy O'Connor 12.06.10 at 12:00 am

My dog came from a school that specifically trains service dogs. He is officially recognized by the government and his identification has his and my picture on it, as well as his registration number. I just like the idea of having the government officially recognize us as a team. It gives me more “clout” when I’m dealing with companies, hotels/motels, restaurants, etc., who try to deny us entry onto their premises. Just my two cents’ worth.

56 Nicole Maria 07.25.11 at 11:31 am

I have mine registered at a national registry. If the states start doing this it will cost money that many people don’t have.
My dog has a tag and number on it plus some patches that are on her vest.
Don’t start making things harder on the handicapped, they have enough to deal with.

57 Ashley 02.21.13 at 11:32 pm

To Vanya Peterson, #51

How, exactly, do you know that we have an increase in fake service dogs these days? According to whom? How does anyone ever know for sure if a dog is not a real service dog (unless the behavior makes it clear)? This would be an impossible statistic to track. Yours is a ridiculous statement.

58 plumber south london 02.26.13 at 11:31 pm

The key reason why I stick with this site is since I’m sure you actually do commonly give you a slightly different leaning on points to several other web-sites so well done. ! . !

59 Charles Vanderriff 06.03.13 at 7:45 pm

Senator Bob Dole got the law passed with all in mind graft minded. and keep the scams out and we seam to be giveing support to the money grabers.

60 Charles Vanderriff 06.03.13 at 7:58 pm

The laws were written in plain english. Stop trying to change it. I trained both of my dogs and when in training took them everyplace with a tight grip on the leash. How else can they learn if not exposed.
The only place I have been abused is where I live and I walked on egg shells and have been abused for five years. Finaly one day pushed over the edge and filed complaint with the proper agency and they have drug it out now for two years.
We finaly got rid of the CEO and the new one has finaly given in some after I printed copys of the laws for him and then filed a civilrights vilation complaint againts the lawyer for giveing false information and advise and interfering with my service dog doing his job and takeing a fee from us. She even had them trying to claim he was a nusance and vicious dog. Never ever growled at anyone or dog and would not fight even if I would let him.
He is best one here and about two months ago I balked. Now he is transported in the Van and Bus and goes with me where ever I go except they still ban me from lunch. We go out and go through buffet lines and he learns fast.

61 Charles Vanderriff 06.03.13 at 8:46 pm

A true service dog bond with the one person and is devoted to that person. They can anc will still attach to good people but come back to the one they protect.
Canyon if not with me 24/7 stresses and when I am haveing a problem watches me like a hawk. Some time it makes me nervous as he knows more than I do. IF I leave him to go to lunch and I am in a problem it is abivious that he has tried to get to me. At exercise last two times he got off the scotter and tried to get to me. so I took with me to the chair and while doing the stress he set there stairing at me the whole time and I trust him with my life.
A true service dog should not leave your side for and should not be left behind for anyone. Canyon is greeted by all my doctors and staff at Church and the better resturants. Canyon at the ranch will go outside for a few minutes and then comes back inside to check on me and out again. Last week my grandson asked me to do some mowing for him in his fancy John Deer tractor. Boy that was rough Air seat power stearing and hydro drive. It was a long way up and as I set down Canyon was coming in behind me and Will helped him up the next time he came runing and up the steps or run and in the cab. Later he said I was over doing it and to stop, he crawled up in my lap and put his head on my heart and lay there. he is not a lap dog by any means. A mix min Doberman pincher and begale. 55 lbs. He knows before I do that I am going out or arithmea.
Pardon my typeing I am 88 this month and was a forman in the machine shop when I was fifteen a machinist tool and die maker. I learned to work for what I got and not wait for it to be given to me.
Please stop fighting and band togeather for the good of all of us. The law has penaltys for the fakes and there alway’s will be those. ” A lady with a shoe dog ASKED how can I get my dog certafied. ans. No legal certafication. ? What is your disability? my back ackes. She wanted to travel with her dog on the plane. I simply said there are laws against that and It was between her and GOD that stopped her cold in her tracks and end of discusion.
PS in my openion only the handler can put the finishing touch on a good dog. The rest is good basick traing,
The state rep said the county attorney was to enforce the laws and they say it is nothing they can do and the police here said they did not know the laws and would not get involved. PASS the BUCK all around and do nothing. We need to work on getting the police and county prosacutor to do there jobs.
I Do not belive ther court exempt Cosco and can find no case that said it did. Some day I may take Canyon and go in just to see if I get the chance, Same as some one said churches. It is not in the laws that I have found and Bob Dole did not exempt anyone in the bill. Oklahoma does ask and orange colar for hearing and we comply with that just to show support. Have fun. NO on certafication. I am the only one that knows if Canyon is working or not so stay out of our lives with all the extra stuff to keep up with Dont create more. If theuy had a National regestry at no charge I would list him. But like guns the goverment regester and then the can some day and they will come and take them from you.
Some times I do use a vest as it stops some quistions. Last week I was told to be sure and put his vest on THAT is the LAW so I informed them it was not the law and after seven years fighting Shermand Huff and his goons I new more than the attorneyws. Stom now. Love to all.
Charles Vandergriff ruditoot@juno.com

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